Grand Canyon Times

Jeff Tobey, candidate for the governing board of Peoria Unified School District, appeared on the Grand Canyon Times Podcast to discuss the reasons he's running and his plans to make student and staff safety a priority in the district.

Tobey is currently running for a seat on the Peoria Unified School District board, which will be on the November 5, 2024 ballot. Tobey is the father of four children in the community, with ages ranging from toddler to high school student. Tobey received his Bachelor's in Communications from Arizona State University. He has served as Safety Chair for his church, and is currently the treasurer of his HOA.

You can listen to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Full, unedited transcript of this episode:

Leyla Gulen: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Grand Canyon Times podcast. I'm your host, Layla Gulen. In this episode, we welcome our guest, Jeff Tobey. Jeff is a law enforcement veteran serving more than two decades as an officer of the law. Today, he's running for the Peoria, Arizona School Board, not only to make our places of learning safer for students and teachers, but with the goal of improving education and limiting waste.

Jeff, welcome. 

Jeff Tobey: Yes. Good morning, Layla. Thank you for having us on. 

Leyla Gulen: Yeah. So, Jeff, you have four children yourself. Can you give us your impression on the state of education as it is right now, as experienced by your own children? 

Jeff Tobey: Well, yeah, you're right. I do have four kids, uh, all within Peoria Unified School District.

My oldest just graduated, actually, and is, uh, currently at her job. But our experience has been limited to the last eight years of the district, uh, when we moved here from farther west in the valley. Okay. And [00:01:00] our experience has been fairly positive. I believe in the role of the public education system. I believe that there's a lot more to offer.

And quite honestly, I'm a little bit jealous of my kids experience now than when I was in high school. And there's so much opportunity, especially with career and technical education avenues available. And I think that is one thing that sets Peoria apart, is the CTE programming and the MET offerings. And honestly, it is a very, very tailored experience for students, and that's what my kids have experienced.

So, I have one who was not necessarily in love with the high school experience, went online, accelerated her own education, and graduated early. My other daughter loves high school, and she loves the experience. Being on campus with all the different extracurricular activities. Uh, so, I think it's wonderful that we have a, an opportunity to have an education system that's not one size fits all, and that's what Peoria Unified stands [00:02:00] for.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah, you had mentioned a couple of acronyms, CET and MET. What do those stand for? 

Jeff Tobey: So, basically, those are our, uh, Career technical education, CTE. We also have at Peoria high school, what's the MET and they offer main courses, such as in medical engineering technology. And their most recent one is global business.

So those are some of the avenues that our students can take where they spend half the day at Peoria high school at the MET. And then they spend the other half of the day there at their home campus, if you will, finishing out their academic curriculum. 

Leyla Gulen: So, so as. Having children gone through the Peoria system, you seem to be quite happy with it.

So why did you decide to run for school board and and what is it that you want to see changed? 

Jeff Tobey: Well, as a person who is in law enforcement, I do believe in the law, and I do believe in rules and regulations and processes, and that's one of my strong points, and I do believe that Pure Unified can do better.

I think that [00:03:00] students, at least my students, have had a positive experience so far in the Pure Unified, but it's not been everybody's experience, and so having my background in the law, And roles and processes. I think we need to tighten it up a bit with Pura Unified and how we approach our education with our students, our professional development with our teachers, as well as the leadership here within Pura Unified.

I really started getting involved as a. Parent advocate back in 2020 during COVID, I wasn't necessarily appreciative of how my kids were being treated and also their classmates being treated after we were finding out factually that students weren't necessarily as impacted by COVID as other general population.

And actually, unfortunately, the statistics show that children were committing suicide at a greater race than dying from COVID. And so the depression and mental health aspect definitely took a toll during COVID. And [00:04:00] continually quarantining and sequestering our kids. One of our students, not my kids, but one of their friends, was quarantined nine times during one year.

That's 90 days of instruction that they missed. And so when the emergency was lifted, the board decided to keep everybody in masks, even though the emergency was lifted. And so I really didn't agree with that decision from a policy perspective and from a parent perspective. And so I started becoming involved.

Became a parent advocate, learned about other parents struggles, and they didn't know where to turn to. And so, having navigated a lot of red tape in my career, I definitely was able to kind of streamline and build that relationship with the then Superintendent, Dr. Reynolds. And was able to organize meetings with Dr.

Reynolds as well as Related staff that were pertinent to whatever issue was. And we were able to accomplish more that way than Say through a board meeting, for example, super rewarding work. I love the parents that I [00:05:00] worked with as an advocate. Uh, and so now I'm just wanting to turn that into someone who actually has a vote.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah, and I want to hear how you would change things. But while we're on the subject of student mental health, you were quoted in a recent article in the Northwest Valley Times regarding a federal grant application that you contend is illegal. So maybe you could tell us a bit more about this. 

Jeff Tobey: Right, so this is the federal demonstration grant that, I believe it was on May 29, that the district asked the board for permission to apply for, and part of the requirements, as well as the competitive preference, because that's how the federal government scores different grant applications by points, competitive preference number one, basically, basically, basically.

Wants a school district to increase the number of qualified school based mental health providers in direct relation to their diverse background from the community that they are or will be serving in. So there are several [00:06:00] rules on on from the Constitution on down to the Civil Rights Act that say we can't pick and choose who we want based on race, ethnicity, social background, things like that.

And so I approached the board and even emailed the board and the incoming superintendent that I had some issues legally with this application. And I outlined my specific beliefs on what I've experienced in law enforcement. There are certain things you can and can't do, and discriminating is one of them.

That absolutely is against the law. 

Leyla Gulen: What did the superintendent say? So, 

Jeff Tobey: I didn't receive any feedback from the incoming superintendent. However, two board members did reach out. back to me via email and as well as that evening when they actually presented it to the board, Mr. Nuttall, one of the professional cabinet members for the Peoria Unified School Board, actually admitted that yes, we had to go to legal and modify some of these words because some of it, I [00:07:00] think he said the words were problematic.

And so the application itself changed from what was publicly posted to everybody online and what was actually presented before the board, specifically because of that discriminatory language. It doesn't necessarily solve the problem, though, that the federal government is actually scoring applications based on these criteria.

So, in my mind, it's still illegal in the way that it's being processed. So, will we get it? I don't know, but our legal team on Pure Unified did see it. Um, and I think that the federal government is, is erring in this point assessment. 

Leyla Gulen: Yeah, well, it certainly ignited the ire of a lot of parents and, and to talk about that language just briefly here, so I'm quoting it, uh, the initiative's intention was to quote, place at least three graduate students from diverse backgrounds that are reflective of the student population or the communities served by Peoria Unified to support high LEAs, which are Local [00:08:00] Education Agencies, is that correct?

Jeff Tobey: Uh, right. The, the Local Education Agencies, and yeah, so it does specifically say races, ethnicities, abilities, and culture. This is what they're grading by. And I was raised heavily on what Martin Luther King did during the Civil Rights Movement and how we all need to be equal at the table. And this just flies in the face of what I was brought up on, education speaking, and I'm a product of public education as well.

Leyla Gulen: Right, right. So, so within the Unified School District, so you have school based health centers. So this is a place where students can go, where they can get treated for mental health issues, correct? 

Jeff Tobey: I think this is where it's going. We haven't established a school based mental health practice, per se. What we have currently are social workers and counselors in the district that, We're funded through the state safety grant because now that schools can choose do they want a police officer?

Do they want a social [00:09:00] worker? Do they want a counselor with these dollars? And so what we're having now in school district that uh, we see in Peoria is we have over I want to say 31 social workers. I forget the number of counselors and over 40 psychologists in this in our Peoria Unified 

Leyla Gulen: And so what this grant is proposing is to place at least three grad students who would then provide The services to students, 

Jeff Tobey: and it would be an incoming stream.

We would be partnering with Grand Canyon University, as well as some of the other local universities in their departments of social work to process these interns and get these interns that exposure, those hours and hands on experience. 

Leyla Gulen: Yeah. So on one hand here, we're almost exactly one year ago to the day, actually, that the Supreme Court ruled it illegal to base a college students admission to university based on their race, so some would argue that this is.

Affirmative action all over again, 

Jeff Tobey: right? Yeah, the Superior Court was very, the Supreme Court was [00:10:00] very clear in that Harvard case about affirmative action when it comes to that. So applying this to now interns, maybe on a more local level, one, obviously they're interns, so they're not licensed to practice psychotherapy or mental health techniques and two, The majority of our current social workers are not licensed by the state, so they have no oversight from the State Board of Behavioral Health Examiners.

I believe we only have nine out of our 31 or 33 social workers who actually carry a license. And so that also is an issue for me. 

Leyla Gulen: Well, that's what I was going to say, because I want to talk about the other side of the coin as well, but doesn't Shouldn't everybody have to reach a certain education threshold before they're released into a position where they're assisting students with mental health services?

So everybody's raised up to that standard and their demographic can run the gamut, but then placing [00:11:00] certain People in certain school districts or is certain schools within a school district that that's something else. I want to talk about because the other side of the coin is could this brand specification have a positive impact by bridging.

A grad student to have a place at the table who could empathize with a particular student body based on their own personal experience. 

Jeff Tobey: I do think that there there is both side and obviously coming out of COVID, there is a mental health deficit, which I personally believe and I have taken advantage of with my family that there are private practices and there are private.

Ways to do that and and even without cost. I mean And this is where I kind of differ from where the district stance is is that yes mental health is important point blank 100 However, we partner with so many different entities in the community That our tax dollars support and fund to where we can go for free and [00:12:00] have our kids talk to somebody or have a mentor, some, some sorts that maybe isn't a parent, but that's the parents choice on on who to go to, which entity to partner with.

And so I believe more in partnerships, not institutions. And if you look at PURE Unified, with the amount of school psychologists, social workers, and counselors, and also behavioral health interventionists, which is an interesting point because Even our behavioral health interventionists have to be licensed.

So there, there is not a single behavioral health interventionist that I'm aware of that doesn't carry a license to Empower Unified. So why do we have social workers and counselors that don't carry a license, to your point? So I, I see the solution two ways. Partner with our agencies that we currently say that we partner with and, and have our families utilize those partnerships.

Or go to a, if you will, a life coach style to basically avoid the license requirement. But if you're going to hire social workers to engage in the practice of social [00:13:00] work, again, coming from a law background, you have to have a license. 

Leyla Gulen: Right. So everybody has to reach a certain standard in your book, which I don't think many people can argue with.

I 

Jeff Tobey: just don't think very many parents know that when their kid is seeing a social worker at school, that that person may or may not be licensed. 

Leyla Gulen: Sure, sure. But also, when you're talking about utilizing some of these other avenues, a lot of times I think it's because The, the, the privacy of the student, I'm all about a parent being fully aware of what their child is going through.

No secrets between a parent and child, truly. But once you go outside of the school system and they're not sort of in house, then the student is exposing themselves to you. They're parents then being a partner in that in that process. So, therefore, if they're having a crisis personally [00:14:00] now their parent knows about it.

Whereas if it's a school based health center, would that be more of a private one on one between the student and that social worker? 

Jeff Tobey: That's, there are, there have been one off instances in the district where that has happened, and unfortunately, uh, I think that's where we, as a district, missed the mark, and where we need to improve on.

Again, I go back to tightening some of our practices and policies. It is currently, right, the practice and policy that Peoria, by and large, obtains parental consent before any of that does take place. However, my daughter can go on to her phone, scan the QR code on the wall at campus, and self refer herself.

to the social worker. Now, will that social worker reach out and get my consent? I hope so, but that's not always the case. And, and, and those are the instances where those are the high risk, but probably low frequency events that we are encountering. And, and that's why unfortunately Pure Unified has made the media splashes probably all too [00:15:00] many times.

Leyla Gulen: So are you wanting to, to dismantle any school based health center or are you a proponent of it, but with certain limitations? 

Jeff Tobey: Well, I do believe Stephen Covey said it best that the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing and Education is our main thing and if there is a student in crisis sure having professionals on staff to be able to recognize Like I said behavior health interventionists are vital to our teaching staff.

They're the ones that can Exactly as their name indicates intervene when students and teachers are not able to handle situations in the classroom and can work with parents to find out what is the best solution for this for this student for your child. So I definitely believe in having professionals on campus that can provide that triaging and intervention 100%.

I don't want to see our schools turn into. Extensions of social [00:16:00] services. And I don't want to see our schools take advantage of our students by billing Medicaid for services that our tax dollars are already paying for. 

Leyla Gulen: I say, I tell you, when I was going to school, I just remember we had the nurse's office and that was it.

His office and a phone call to mom. 

Jeff Tobey: Exactly. And then, you know what? Same here. The nurse was the be all, solve all, and it has slowly expanded. And that's that creep that we want to stop. We want to stop that. That creep into where we were making students dollar signs and and like, for example, social workers that are paid for by our taxes or or state safety dollars.

I don't want to see them turn around and billing Medicaid again and getting double dipping. Essentially, our Medicaid billing. I've just got some records recently on this have increased dramatically. As far as what we've been claiming from a Medicaid perspective at the, at the district. So I would like to learn more about that as well.

Leyla Gulen: And, and, and this is part of your, because I know a balanced budget is [00:17:00] something that you're also striving for. So, and of course, I really want to get to the education component because the numbers that have come out of the Arizona school system are pretty, pretty bad. But let's talk real quick about that elusive balanced budget.

So would you say that this would be one way in which you would right side. The school budget is by making sure that there is no double dipping and, and what are some of the other ways? 

Jeff Tobey: Well, I do believe that a lot of the administrative costs as we've seen in recent reports have dramatically increased over years.

So even, even dollars in the classroom or for, I should say per student per capita, right, has increased over the years. But are we really seeing that in the classroom? So many of my teachers that I've spoken with are not really seeing that benefit in the classroom. And that's where I would like to get these.

Important dollars actually to the teachers in the classroom. So really top down, uh, analysis of where are we spending our money? And is it the best [00:18:00] decision on where, where to spend that? So part of the balanced budget approach is are we too top heavy? Do we need to provide the superintendent some direction as far as what our administrative staff to teacher ratio needs to look like?

Do we really need 30 something social workers? Because here's the other thing. The grant money that they were all hired under expires. And so what are we going to do then with three dozen? Social workers then that's going to impact the general line. So we need to be thinking 3, 5, 10 years out when it comes to this budget and balancing it.

I do think that the increase in Medicaid has been probably To try to offset some of these costs, but does this really need to be an avenue where we're, we're filling in the gaps because we haven't had bond passing over 10 years, right? So are we trying to fill in the gaps with other avenues? I, I would really like to find that out.

And so with. The Peoria Unified School District and the City of Peoria, for [00:19:00] example, I think there needs to be a partnership there, and I'm looking forward to the growth of Peoria, and is there a way that the City of Peoria could assist the district to where it's not impacting the district's bottom line?

It's a mutually beneficial relationship, and it also helps our kids prepare for the job market. 

Leyla Gulen: Right, of course, yeah, to be competitive, not just with your next door neighbor, but The world as a whole. So as promised to academic performance, gotta talk about this. According to the Arizona Department of Education public School Review, only 42% of students test proficient in English language arts.

42%, right? It's even lower for math percent. Why are the numbers so low? 

Jeff Tobey: So I asked this question directly to Dr. Hernandez. She is over curriculum for pure unified. So I had to sit down meeting with her discussing these very same issues. And, and she was very, very direct and [00:20:00] forward about how before she became part of the district a couple of years ago, obviously we have the, the learning deficit from COVID that we're still combating.

So those, those, Students who are directly impacted in middle school and late elementary school are now graduating and we're still starting to come out of that deficit. That's one. So we're trying to take some measures to supplement that learning loss to be able to get these students up increasing their proficiencies.

And before Pura Unified, or before Dr. Hernandez came to Pura Unified. We were a resource based curriculum, meaning one teacher could provide X, Y, and Z resources to help the students learn to read, while a teacher across the hall might use different resources. So all these curriculum coaches were able to use from this plethora of resources.

And it wasn't necessarily marrying up with state standards. And that's what Dr. Hernandez says. She's here to get the school district back on track to teaching the state standards, [00:21:00] having a standards based curriculum. And that's why we've had a change over our textbooks in our curriculum here in the district to try to get us back to that state standards minimum, and then surpassing it.

So I would definitely let Dr. Hernandez run with this ball here, metaphorically speaking, because it is going to take a couple years to see. Some benefit from getting back on track and having the entire district moving in the same direction together to, to raise this academics and specifically with academics, reading comprehension or reading proficiencies.

Uh, one thing that I've really invested my time in and speaking on is reading comprehension by third grade at grade level. It's super important. Reading is the topic that increases all other academic performances and it even has an indicator on career success. So if our students aren't able to read by the third grade, we need to be supplementing those students and getting them to that level before we have them move on.

Because after that [00:22:00] benchmark, uh, I'm not sure if you've heard of the Matthew effect before. 

Leyla Gulen: No, tell, tell me what is that? 

Jeff Tobey: So essentially it's an academic principle. It applies to many different things. But if, if a student does not read at grade level by the third grade, then that student moving forward will continually fall behind in greater proportion.

Opposite of that, if a student reads at or above grade level by the third grade, they will continue to increase or dramatically. Improve on their reading ability continually throughout their high school. So it's like this divergent experience effect and it all comes back to that reading proficiency. And it seems third grade is the range or the target area where we need to be focusing on our students and their ability to read.

Leyla Gulen: That's interesting. Why the third grade? Why is that such a crucial time in their life? 

Jeff Tobey: I, I don't know, I can't really speak to the science behind it, but I do know obviously a lot of European countries also look at that age range, whether it's second grade or third grade in their systems. [00:23:00] Because you, by now, usually kindergarten and first grade, you learn how to read your sight words and you can put sentences together.

But being able to actually read at the third grade level by the third grade, that, for some reason, study after study shows that that is the fork in the road, if you will. And if we don't have our kids succeed at that point, we will forever be catching them up for the remainder of their high school or their schooling experience in Peoria.

And some of our schools in Peoria are showing 11 percent reading proficiency rates at the third grade. So like, there is some serious work that we need to do when it comes to academics for our student body. 

Leyla Gulen: Yeah, I mean, I will admittedly tell you that I have not been inside of a classroom and I can't tell you how long.

Uh, I know that it has changed drastically, uh, over the decades. Particularly though now. Getting kids up to a proficient reading level is one thing, but what about the influence of [00:24:00] electronic devices that kids are allowed to bring into the classroom, other distractions that, frankly, teachers are having to struggle with all the time?

I mean, I see, I see clips, I see things in the news where teachers just, they're at their wits end, they grab a phone, they throw it against the wall and then they get in trouble. But what about. Where it starts, which is at home. How do you go about changing a culture to then get the students engaged when their rear ends are sitting at their desk for a certain number of hours each day to learn?

They're there to learn, not to be other devices and buried in social media all day long. So how do you change that? 

Jeff Tobey: Right, well, that's very, that's two or three deep points right there as far as do we allow technology in the classroom, student technology. What do you think? Well, I do think it goes back to the parents.

It goes back to what's going on at home and what is their current situation. Do I think that [00:25:00] electronics and cell phones should be out during classroom period times? No, I think it should be away. Do I think that we need to ban students from carrying these devices? Not necessarily. But then you also have a disagreement among teachers who, who have their students pull their phones out and use it as a resource aid.

In their instruction. So you have this push and pull even in the professional staff on do we allow cell phones in campus or not? 

Leyla Gulen: I think that's sending mixed messages. If you have a teacher that is requiring students to pull out a smart device to do research, how is that right? I mean, you're sending mixed messages to kids who are certainly not going to police themselves if it's okay to use their device as a learning tool.

Quote, unquote. During a lesson, they're going to be using it to text with their friends, to Snapchat, to do all kinds of ridiculous things. 

Jeff Tobey: It's funny because my daughter came to me and says, hey dad, for science, or I forget, I think it was science class, we, we need to download this app and we're told that we need [00:26:00] to have our, our phones with us for, for class.

And it's like, Do you really do it? Do I need to be emailing the teacher? Should I verify that? Or is it just, Hey, if you have it, please use it. But even then there is that disagreement with amongst the professional staff about cell phones away versus, Hey, let's use your cell phone. So that way everybody could benefit from this resource.

Now there's lots of apps out there that are wonderful. Explained things in way better ways than what I was taught on a, on a overhead projector as a kid. Yeah. But no, that, that's something that needs to be with the parent too. There needs to be regulations as far as like what's going on at home and, and.

One former superintendent that I sat down and spoke with who was in a very low economic school district Said that as soon as we started getting not just the parents, but the grandparents involved specifically with reading She noticed the the largest turnaround and reading comprehension and and reading proficiency She's ever seen so I [00:27:00] do think part of me loves the whole mantra of what takes the village Because on some parts that's true You And so maybe it is this role of we need to engage the parents more and the grandparents more to provide that stimulus for the student in the classroom.

So I would like to explore what avenues does the superintendent have to engage in that spectrum of incorporating the second and third level generation into the classroom and into the learning experience. 

Leyla Gulen: Oh, right. I mean, I'm all for being up on technology and making sure that kids are aware of this stuff because they're using it all over the globe, but I can assure you that kids in China, they're not allowed to sit there and text with their friends that any social media app is a promotion of arts and culture and science and technology.

Whereas it's a bunch of garbage in this country, as far as I'm concerned, I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with that, but, [00:28:00] but there's a lot of garbage out there that kids are, are going to be prone to being attracted to and lured by. 

Jeff Tobey: Right, and that directly speaks to safety. Growing up, my kids were, hey dad, can I have this happen, can I have this happen, and unfortunately there was a direct relation, and you know what, probably to their, you know, benefit or detriment, however you see it, of having a father in police work.

I would know how these apps are being abused and used by predators or people who are trying to That's right. flee from you. So, so my approach to school safety as well is not just a physical one where we have, you know, certain barriers and certain check ins and certain, like I said, policies and procedures.

It is also, extends out to the campus. To the bus stops to school events that are outside of school campus, right? So it is a multi faceted approach. And I'm super grateful that we now have a new security director. We've never had one before like this. We've had [00:29:00] security manager, right? Who was a former maintenance worker and he tried the best he could to manage the safety and security for 40 plus schools, 36, 000 students and 4, 000 employees.

I mean, that's a lot. 

Leyla Gulen: That is a lot. So day one, if you were to be elected to the board, what would be the prioritization of the things that you'd like to see accomplished in your first term? 

Jeff Tobey: I think that recently, actually, the superintendent had a retreat with the current board members and some of the board members asked for my input on what, what should be the goals on how we grade the new superintendent.

And then one thing that I was specific on was I want to see. All 40 campuses, physical campuses, at 90 percent completion of all their safety and security recommendations that were given in their prior TSP report. So, I want to see, like, some of these campuses are farther ahead than others. I would like to get all these schools on the [00:30:00] same page, get us up to some baseline of physical security based on what was seen as deficient in the reports, and then let's move on from there and assess what is the best way to use our money for school safety.

So 

Leyla Gulen: give me just a quick example of where it was deficient. 

Jeff Tobey: So for example, there has been some, I won't get into the specifics, but there have been some remodels of front office areas, right? So, so crime prevention through environmental design. SEPTED is basically how do we make something secure, but also not look ugly and look pretty decent.

So it's obviously with lighting and with even bushes and shrubs and trees and boulders and things that control the flow of people and vehicles, you know, So some of the campuses had really no security at their front office. It was a, almost a walkthrough entry. There were no, besides the desk for the front office staff, nothing keeping a control on, on who's coming in and out of this, this room.

Office and, and into [00:31:00] the school. So some of them have gotten their desk remodeled and their front offices and their doors secured. There's also, you know, protective laminate that can be used to make it resistant to breakage and entering. So there, there are several things that I want to see on my own mental checklist that were, that I know were recommended because I recommend these to schools myself currently that needs to get done and some places are not done.

Leyla Gulen: Right. Right. Okay. So that that's day one. We'll talk about day two the next time we meet. 

Jeff Tobey: Right. And the last thing, all Peoria families, they want to send their kids to a safe school. They want to get a quality education for a reasonable cost. And that's really been my mantra, safe schools, quality education, reasonable costs.

And that's, that's what I want to do for my first term. 

Leyla Gulen: Okay. Jeff Tobey, he's running for Arizona's Peoria school board. How do people find you and support your campaign? 

Jeff Tobey: Yeah, great question. So I have a website [00:32:00] VoteToby. org, and on there you can hit the donate button and donate contributions. We greatly appreciate it.

Those small dollar donations really do add up and they help a lot. I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter at VoteToby, so you can find me on there. 

Leyla Gulen: And that's T O B T O B 

Jeff Tobey: Right? Yeah. The E is silent. 

Leyla Gulen: He is silent. Okay. Perfect. But you're not, you're not silent, Jeff. I want to thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us.

And we'll look forward to catching up with you as we get closer to election day. 

Jeff Tobey: I welcome it. so much.