Grand Canyon Times

Kayla Van Soest, the Tucson Market Manager of Children’s Entrepreneur’s Market (C.E.M.), joined the Grand Canyon Times Podcast to discuss her organization.

This episode is also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Founded in Utah, CEM helps organize markets in sixteen states, including Arizona, where children can sell their products and learn about entrepreneurship. 

CEM operates in various locations, including farmers markets, movie nights, and concerts, partnering with events that attract significant foot traffic to provide kids with greater exposure and sales opportunities.

The program allows kids aged 5 to 17 to showcase their entrepreneurial skills and creativity by selling a diverse range of products, from beverages and snacks to handmade accessories, dog treats, and even flowers.

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Full, unedited transcript of this episode:

Leyla Gulen: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Grand Canyon Times podcast. I'm your host, Layla Gulen. In this episode, we welcome our guest, Kayla Van Sost. Kayla is market manager for the Children's Entrepreneur Market, an award winning program that teaches young people about the power of entrepreneurship. Innovation and leadership over the last five years, nearly 10, 000 kids benefited and is now in 15 states.

Kayla, welcome.

Kayla Van Soest: Thank you so much for having me. And I think that number is probably way bigger than 10, 000.

Leyla Gulen: We'll get into the participation in just a moment, but You know, we're all familiar with the timeless lemonade stand or Girl Scout cookies, and I think we've done one or the other. How is the children's entrepreneur market or C. E. M. different or the same? Tell us more about it.

Kayla Van Soest: Yeah, so that's a great question. Lemonade stands and just kids selling things in their [00:01:00] neighborhood or on the side of the road is kind of like. The backbone of what we envision, um, when we think about kid entrepreneurs, one of the main things though, that we found when kids approach that kind of endeavor is that most of their time is spent flagging down customers and just trying to et anybody to stop for them.

And so what we do is we minimize that and we maximize the customer interaction opportunities that they have. And they also get more time making change and trying to make the sale with people that are just walking by. So our markets, we partner them up with existing events that already have a good amount of foot traffic, which is what makes us.

It's different from just them setting up on the side of the road.

Leyla Gulen: So they're not just one off little booths. This is actually in bonafide farmers markets typically or flea markets?

Kayla Van Soest: Farmers markets. We've done like [00:02:00] movie in the park night, concert in the park. We have down here in Tucson where I am, we have a big like downtown scene on 4th Avenue.

And so we've done a market there. We have actually done several there where there's just. Always foot traffic on the avenue and in Texas, we've done much larger like city events where there's like 60, 000 patrons. So, yeah, so it definitely is much bigger than just like your typical lemonade stand and sometimes even bigger than just a regular farmer's market.

Yeah,

Leyla Gulen: I'll say I, I would be pleased if I sold maybe a cup of lemonade back in the day.

Kayla Van Soest: Would you make that sale?

Leyla Gulen: You've got the world in the palm of your hand. I mean, it has a huge impact. And of course, I want to talk about that as well. But. When you say the lemonade stands and anything that kids sell as just sort of these one off fun little ventures, what [00:03:00] was the inspiration behind launching this organization?

I'm sure it goes a bit deeper than just past experience of the classic lemonade stand.

Kayla Van Soest: Yeah, so there was a, there was a market that happened in Utah, so we've been in operation in Utah since 2017, but just prior to that, there was a market that happened that was essentially what we do on a smaller scale, and our parent company, which is Libertas Institute, the owner, or the CEO, he saw what they were doing, and he really liked it, and so he wanted to get involved, and it just kind of blossomed from there.

We've obviously moved on to much of what we do. Bigger things since then and many other places, but that's just kind of how it started. We just saw the idea and took off from there. Let me

Leyla Gulen: ask you this. Why is entrepreneurship a healthy outlet for kids?

Kayla Van Soest: Oh my goodness. Why is it not? I mean, they learn so many skills that they don't get to learn, [00:04:00] especially like in a classroom setting.

It's one thing to just talk about, like, this is how you make a sale, this is how you say hello to a customer, but I think The real magic happens when they actually get to do it, and we've found out, I mean, in many things, it's pretty evident that when you get to experience something firsthand, number one, you're going to be more engaged, you're going to, you're going to understand it a little bit better, but number two, Without the experience, it just kind of seems like this idea of, oh, I could do that, but when they get to actually get change from a customer and make the change and hand the customer the change back and then or explain what their product is, it just sits so much better.

As a life skill that they'll carry with them for the rest of their lives. That's interesting that it sounds

Leyla Gulen: kind of old fashioned in today's [00:05:00] day and age where everybody pays with the debit card. So, so these are

Kayla Van Soest: cash only businesses. They're actually not. So that's one thing that we leave up many things up to the kids and what they think the best business decision is.

And a lot of the kids actually do offer digital payments like Benmo or Zell. Some of them who are really dedicated to their business, they have a square. Where they can just accept, like, if somebody has a physical credit or debit card. And then a lot of them, of course, accept cash, too. I haven't seen one booth that doesn't accept cash.

But, yeah, we leave it all up to them and what they think is the best idea for their business. Because if, for personally, for me, if I go somewhere and I'm not, like, prepared with cash, then I might not be able to buy something that I wanted to buy if that vendor doesn't take. Um, some form of digital payment.

And so I think the kids realize that eventually if they're a cash only business, they [00:06:00] realize that I might be missing out on customers, um, because I'm not offering this other form of payment. So then they eventually do incorporate something like that.

Leyla Gulen: There's a lot of thought that goes into this and a lot of pre planning, so not only is it an element of trial and error and seeing what the masses, how they typically pay for their goods, but also being prepared, having multiple avenues in which to pay for your

Kayla Van Soest: products, and going to the bank and making sure you've got money to

Leyla Gulen: make change if cash is the way that your consumer wants to

Kayla Van Soest: pay.

Yes. Yes. It's amazing all the preparation and the hard work that goes into just them coming and setting up for a few hours. And I think that Really is impactful, especially for somebody who it's just their first time and maybe they thought they wanted to sell bracelets and lemonade and Five other things and they get there and they're like, oh man This is maybe I should just [00:07:00] narrow it down to one thing for next time because all the preparation for all the different things maybe wasn't as lucrative as they thought it was going to be And then also, I just want to mention like the parents who support their kids in the, in these kinds of experiences are just really amazing because as a 10, 8, 5 year old, you're not able to drive to the bank and go get the things that get the cash or you're not able to drive yourself to the store to get your supplies.

So, it takes a lot of dedication on the parents part as well, and it's very appreciated.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah. Well, you answered my next question, and that is, what are the ages of these young entrepreneurs? So, you say as young as five years old? Yes.

Kayla Van Soest: Yeah, five to seventeen. That's got to be so

Leyla Gulen: adorable.

Kayla Van Soest: Who could say no to those faces?

I know, I know. It is really cute. I actually have a five year old daughter, and she, When she was four, we did a lemonade [00:08:00] stand. She's very, like, mature for her age. We just did a lemonade stand on our street, and she was like, I wanna do that again, and I was like, Okay, well, why don't you make something else that you really like and you can sell it at a market?

And she did, she participated in a market in September of last year, and she made 90 selling 2 necklaces that she made. Wow! Wow, a five

Leyla Gulen: year old! That's amazing! Alright, so the parents also have to be maybe seed investors, right? Because they have to buy the materials to make the products that sell.

Kayla Van Soest: Of course, yeah, so if the business is just starting up, yes, the parents usually are investing a little bit up front, and then what I've seen a lot of kids do, like, I'll ask them, we have a blog and we, um, ask certain questions for that, and we'll ask, like, So what are your plans with the money that you made?

And a lot of them will say, well, I first have to pay my parents back for everything that they purchased for me. And then they'll say, then I'm going to save it or [00:09:00] whatever it is. so

Leyla Gulen: they actually pay the parents

Kayla Van Soest: back? Many of them do, yes. Okay, so, so after all that work and then they

Leyla Gulen: come back and maybe their net profit is uh, a fraction of that 90 and

Kayla Van Soest: that doesn't discourage them?

No, not at all, because they're, they just are so enamored with the entire experience that it makes them want to do it more and make more money next time. How beautiful

Leyla Gulen: is that? You're dealing with these fresh, young minds, not jaded by the world, and just thirsty for the next opportunity. I think a lot of adults could learn something from these kids.

Kayla Van Soest: Oh, absolutely. They definitely could, for

Leyla Gulen: sure. Okay, so, so what are some of the things that the kids sell?

Kayla Van Soest: It's, there's so many things. So, obviously, like, lemonade, hot chocolate, any kind of beverage. It's like snack food, like popcorn, cotton candy. Dog [00:10:00] treats. There's tons of, like, accessories, hair accessories.

One of the girls that was just at a market that I did in Apache Junction, she's a seamstress, and so she sews, like, purses and really cute pillows. There was another young man there that made things out of leather, like hats and bags and wallets. Another little boy was selling flowers and little vases. So it's just, we don't regulate anything that is sold, unless the venue says specifically like, we don't want the kids selling food.

Then we'll say, if it's going to be a really good event for the kids, we'll say, okay, maybe we'll do that and just not do any food. But otherwise, we don't regulate anything that is sold at our markets, with the exception of like raw food, like milk and stuff like that. And so The possibilities are really endless.

There's been kids that have done, like one of the girls in Texas recently, she does a booth with her brother, [00:11:00] sells Hawaiian donuts, and then she does face painting, and she does busking with her, I believe it's a violin, and so she just plays for tips with her violin, and then she does the face painting for like a flat fee.

But there's just so many different things that you see and everything is so creative. I just, it's really wonderful.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah. Creative thinking outside the box, just whatever their skills or talents are, and then how to turn that into a money making operation, I think is incredible. And I'm glad you brought up the food because I was going to ask, considering that there are strict health codes in most states, how kids are held accountable for adhering to those codes and making sure that the food is prepared.

In a controlled, safe way.

Kayla Van Soest: So in many states, actually, there are lemonade laws that allow kids to not have to abide by many of those same regulations that [00:12:00] adult vendors would have to abide by. And I also think when you're buying something from a child, you're realizing that this is a child's business and you kind of assume the risk that comes with that.

We don't operate under any cottage food laws or anything like that in, in any of the states that we are in. And if we have an event that wants us to do that, Either we can say, okay, no food at this market, we just don't want to have the kids deal with that period, or we can say, we just won't do this event, because sometimes it's a little bit much for, for us to go in and make sure that every single child is safe.

It's making something in a kitchen that's approved by the health department.

Leyla Gulen: Oh, exactly. I know. And I think logic, common sense for any adult who's walking up to a child's lemonade stand, you're really there to just support their effort.

Kayla Van Soest: Yes. And the other thing is too, that in a lot of states, So if you're, if [00:13:00] we're talking about the cottage food laws, part of that is having a food handler's permit, and in a lot of states, that age is like 14, so if a five year old wants to sell lemonade, they're totally out of the question for being able to do that if we're, um, staying under that cottage food guidance, which we're not.

So, um, yeah. It would make it tricky, that's for sure.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah, sure. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, being that this is essentially work, do you ever come up against critics who are concerned with child labor or scrutinizing the idea and the philosophy behind this organization?

Kayla Van Soest: Personally, I haven't. I know that there was some question.

In regards to the, the bill that is being heard currently, the SB 1370, there was a question about, well, what if the parents are exploiting the children? And that's just not what this is. This is kids who [00:14:00] are creating their own business. They're coming out here and you can tell that they That they are kids who have, who've done it themselves.

And also one of our rules is that kids cannot sell anything on behalf of their parents. And if we see that, then they're done. And usually we try to catch that before the market actually happens. So that there's not any question of that or any, any drama at the market. So, your vetting process.

Leyla Gulen: So let's say.

I call you up and I say my child is really interested in participating. Is there a vetting process to, to know what the child is making or selling and?

Kayla Van Soest: No, there's not any upfront like application, they don't have to apply for this, but we do have every time somebody registers, it goes into our database and it shows exactly what they're selling, the name of their business, how old their child is.

And so we look through that periodically just to make sure that there's nothing questionable. Okay. All right.

Leyla Gulen: Yeah. So, all [00:15:00] right. So. Oh, so if it's a five year old who wants to sell, oh gosh, I don't know, uh, woodworking or I don't know. Something that appears would be made by an adult, you'd kind of, your antenna would go up.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. And as far as marketing goes, do you market on behalf of the kids or are they encouraged to leverage social media or other marketing tools to

Kayla Van Soest: promote themselves? Yeah, so we market our markets, we advertise our markets and then we let the kids, we send them, we send the parents the flyers and we send them some marketing materials that they can share on behalf of their child or if their child has their own Facebook page or Instagram or whatever for their business, we encourage that as well and understandably so, like, Yeah.

Some people are not going to have that. So we just tell them, make sure you tell your family and friends and that kind of thing, but we do advertise the actual markets as much as we

Leyla Gulen: can. [00:16:00] Oh, okay. And what are the kids getting out of this? And what is the impact that they've expressed that selling their wares at market has had on them and parents as well?

What is

Kayla Van Soest: everybody saying? So everybody that I have asked the question, like, what did you think? They all loved it so much. Even the kids who, like, I had a market that was pretty much rained out. We still operate Rain or Shine and about half the kids still showed up. Even those kids were like, I had a great time.

I learned so much. I can't wait to do it again. And I think just, I think kids, honestly, we put them in front of screens so much nowadays. And I think kids just truly crave and enjoy, like, the Face to face interactions with people and being able to show it's like a show and tell kind of thing and we all Those of us who like to talk in front of people We all love that kind of thing when we got to go up in front of our friends and say this is what I have And this is why I [00:17:00] love it Um, and I think that just having that experience gets them excited, like I said earlier about, about doing it again, and of course, all the wonderful skills that they learn how to make, um, make calculated risks, they have critical thinking skills that they're developing, just so many, so many things that go into it beyond just the surface level, like, here's your change, and how are you today, That kind of thing.

They just, yeah, they just take all those skills with them into adulthood. And I think that really makes the community better as a whole, honestly, even if the child is not going to be an entrepreneur when they grow up, they take the skills that they've learned from the markets and from doing other ventures with their business.

And they say, yeah, I know how to talk to people face to face because I practiced this my whole childhood. Whereas lots of people now, everything's so digital and. On our phones that we find that Younger adults, they, they don't really have the [00:18:00] skills for customer service and interacting face to face with people,

Leyla Gulen: so.

When adults lack that skill, how can you expect children to when they've been brought up in this digital era? And it is true. I've come across several kids that you can tell the ones who have been plopped with a iPad in front of their face versus others who, at interactions and the ones that have had the interactions.

They're just much more open. They know how to hold a conversation. They know how to make eye contact or get on the phone. And the other ones are, they're recluses. They are very shy. They lack any kind of self confidence. So I can definitely see how this would build self esteem. Now, in any sales environment, there's also rejection.

So how do kids handle not making a sale?

Kayla Van Soest: Yeah, surprisingly well, I want to say, because again, they're still learning. So. I like to tell them if there's a child that didn't sell very much at that particular [00:19:00] market, like, this was a great learning experience. What can you do differently next time to maybe sell a little bit more products?

And so we really just frame it as a learning opportunity for them when they do have, like, that they didn't do as well as they thought they were going to do, they didn't make as much money. And it's funny because a lot of the kids, these markets are several hours, so like three to four hours generally.

And a lot of the kids that are shy at first, about halfway through, you see them start to change their tactics a little bit and get a little bit more out there and start to feel a little bit more confident. I don't know if that's because they feel like it's almost over or if they feel like, they're like, well, the person next to me is doing this, so maybe I should try that instead with my stuff because they're selling more than I am.

Or they might leave the experience and they might just say, I don't think I want to sell fidget spinners anymore. Maybe I want to sell [00:20:00] cookies instead because my fidget spinners didn't sell very well. So, they do handle it pretty well, and I think that the parents also frame it as a learning opportunity for the kids.

And I have never met or seen any parent that has been like, this was terrible, we're never doing this again. They're always very encouraging of the kids, so that is very helpful as well. And I think

Leyla Gulen: The message that people are talking about more and more now is giving kids a purpose and also having resiliency.

I think life is nothing but rejection and success. In order to reach success, you have to go through a lot of rejection. And it's, you're not just going to get everything so easily, but The process of working through it can be enriching and full of wonderful lessons and experiences. So I can imagine that the parents are just absolutely thrilled with having this opportunity.

And I [00:21:00] got to know what the reaction is from the consumers who happen upon these youngsters.

Kayla Van Soest: Yeah, they love it so much. They, I have several people come up to me at each market and they're like, this is amazing what you're doing for the kids. We love that they're getting out and like getting involved and putting their faces out in the community.

It's been really well received anywhere that we've gone. Any market that we've had, the people just are, the people in the community are just very supportive, which has been great.

Leyla Gulen: That's wonderful. For any parent who's considering getting their child involved, what's the first step that they

Kayla Van Soest: should take?

They should go to our website. We have, of course, all of our markets listed there, and they can register for one of those. But we also have a section called Prepare for the Market, and it has like a free business plan, and it has some good insightful videos. That can just help your child get started on deciding what they want to sell, coming up with some goals and different things like that.

And I think that's, if they've [00:22:00] never done something like this before, I think that's the right place to start.

Leyla Gulen: That's wonderful. Yeah, I was going to say, having a business plan, just knowing what the interest and talents are of your child, the cost value analysis, sustainability and time involvement. I think there's so many things that do go into it, far more than what I initially even thought about before I started talking to you, Kayla.

So you've opened up my mind. Should I ever be interested in selling anything at a farmer's market? But you're now in, is it 15 states? Has it grown? I know it's almost 90 cities.

Kayla Van Soest: Yes, it is about 15. We are, we've hired, I want to say like 16 new managers this year. So well, actually just within the last couple weeks.

So we do plan to be nationwide by 2026, which means like rapid growth speed for us. But it's going to be great because we get to take [00:23:00] this opportunity and bring it to kids all across the country who might not otherwise have. This opportunity in their area. Yeah. How so?

Yeah,

Leyla Gulen: little states get, get on board.

How? How do you open up a market in your own state?

Kayla Van Soest: Well, we have kind of an expansion plan, so we hire in the major metro areas. And we have certain ones that we were hiring for this year, and then next year we'll open up many more openings in different metros. So, our applications are closed right now, but when they open up again, that'll be for a specific number of states

Leyla Gulen: and number of metros next year.

Oh, that's wonderful. Well, keep doing what you're doing. I think this is such a terrific opportunity. And, you know, getting kids out there, getting a healthy competition. Getting them thinking beyond the video game console and, and social media, where you can just kind of get [00:24:00] lost and it's depressing too.

This is offering hope and fun. And

Kayla Van Soest: money! Yes! I know! Like, what kid doesn't want to have more money?

Leyla Gulen: Absolutely! Absolutely! Well, Caleb on SOST, this has been such a joy talking with you. Congratulations on all the work that you've done and much, much more success coming your

Kayla Van Soest: way. Thank you so much for having me, Laila.

This was great. And yes, I can't wait for all the fun years to

Leyla Gulen: come. Indeed. Indeed. Well, thank you for joining us.

Kayla Van Soest: Thank you.